Blast from the Past!
A Debate on the Ability of the Apostles to
Accurately Remember Jesus’ Teachings
The following is an online debate I had with someone in my Intro to
Philosophy class freshman year when we discussed “Jesus: Philosopher?” The
central question of the debate was: “Could the disciples of Jesus Christ
remember his teachings and deeds well enough to accurately record them in
the Gospels thirty or sixty years after His death?” The first entry is
mine labeled under the debater COREMEMBER. The second entry is from my
fellow classmate whom we shall call, MR. X. The final entry is my response
to his rebuttal:
ROUND 1
COREMEMBER
October 20, 2003
PHI 101
TR 9:00-10:15am
I'm interested in all the debate over whether or not the words
in the gospels are really those of Jesus. I feel that what is recorded in
the gospels is true to the message and near verbatim of the historical
Jesus, and I would like to illustrate that with a little story.
Two years ago I remember hearing a motivational speaker come to
my school. He told a good schpiel, and I remember in particular the corny
way he delivered a story about a one-legged football player. I enjoyed the
story until I heard it a second time at a leadership conference, a third
time at a student government convention, and finally a fourth time somewhere
else. By the fourth time I was ready to stand up and give the talk myself
"Okay! We know the schpiel sir, he's got the one leg, he was hopping so well
it looked like on film he was running" or "Yes sir we know you went into the
woods and asked God how can I make a better world and God said, John, make a
better you."
You see, the life of Jesus is like that of a motivational
speaker, now some of you may still have doubts as to whether the disciples
could remember Jesus' sayings accurately 50 or 60 years after his death.
Well, imagine this, you're a first century Jew running a moderately
successful fishing venture or tax collecting business. You abandon it, your
whole life, to follow a scruffy Jewish ascetic on a mission to proclaim "the
kingdom of God." For the next three years you travel to different
towns and you hear this guy give the same schpiel over and over again,
probably hundreds of times. Now he's dead, and (here's where the road in the
woods diverges) you feel a duty to help him live on in these teachings by
spreading them yourself. Or he really has lived on and he's helping
you to spread the message of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven
(Jesus' philosophy and theology).
With all of this it's important to remember that the Jews of
this century did not have modern information retrieval like we do. Without
computers or even paper half the time they had to rely on memory. Plus, it
was the Jewish tradition to memorize. During this time period some rabbis
had the entire Old Testament committed to memory and a good student was
expected to have his rabbis teachings memorized as well. Second, Jesus'
teachings were in Aramaic poetic form, that doesn't mean that they rhymed
but they had form and structure, which made memorizing much easier (Strobel
43).
On a final note, I find it interesting that no one questions
the sayings of Buddha or the life of Alexander the Great, two famous near
contemporaries of Jesus. The first biography of Alexander the Great was
written 400 years after he died (Strobel 33). Monks didn’t write down
Buddha’s sayings until 400 years after his death as well (Soccio 45).
In conclusion, whenever someone tells me that the apostles'
memories of Jesus were clouded by time, I just remember that motivational
speaker, and I imagine what it would have been like to hear him give that
talk hundreds of times, and not to mention living with him! I probably
couldn't forget what he said if I tried!
Sources:
Soccio, Douglas - Archetypes of Wisdom
Strobel, Lee - The Case For Christ
ROUND 2
MR. X
October 27, 2003
You are trying to equivocate something you'd heard 3 years ago, to something
that was said anywhere between 40 and 80 years later? Where is the logic in
that? Also, these were not recitings over and over, the actual writing of
the letters happened 40 to eighty years after the Christos death. And if you
would like to bring the idea of Rabbis memorization into play then we must
then ask, who among them were called Rabbi. The answer is Jesus himself. I
could be mistaken, but as I recall he was the only one clearly called Rabbi
in the entire bible. Now yes, it is cogent that after his death the
remaining ten disciples, added Paul and include Mary Magdalene may have gone
on to claim that title, however I don't think we have any hard evidence of
that. If you put it up for possibility, yes, the possibility is there.
However, the actual letters were not written until 40 to 80 years after
Christ's death. The letters were recited but the words being written took a
lot more time than that. What truly happened in the interim is up for
debate, but if you have hard evidence, by all means bring it to the table.
-MR. X
ROUND 3
COREMEMBER
November 2, 2003
PHI 101
TR 9:00-10:15am
One of Jesus’ cardinal teachings was to emphasize the Jewish commandment
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength.” It’s
interesting that the we should love the Lord with all our mind. I’m writing
this to say that other Christian students in philosophy should have no fear
of people who challenge their faith. Ours is a faith not dependent on
feelings but supported by facts. The following is my response to Damien’s
e-mail regarding the ability of the apostles to accurately remember and
record Jesus’ teachings and sayings. The following charges include:
“You are trying to equivocate
something you'd heard 3 years ago, to something that was said anywhere
between 40 and 80 years later? Where is the logic in that?”
I am not trying to equivocate it, but make an analogy. I’m
showing first how easy it was for me to remember this guy’s sayings a few
years later by only hearing him a few times. Now the apostles’ memories rely
on the same principle but the analogy is expanded. Instead of hearing Jesus
speak a few times on separate occasions they heard him speak hundreds of
times on many near occasions. In addition, he impacted them much more than
this motivational speaker impacted me. After all, they abandoned their jobs
and families and lived with him! It is the general consensus of historians
that Jesus preached for at the very least one year, but more likely three
years. That’s a long time! In addition, we know from Jesus’ philosophy that
he did not believe in convoluted teaching but short, get-to-the-point
statements. “Love your neighbor as yourself,” “Do not judge, lest you be
judged.” So it is unlikely that his preaching changed from place to place.
“Also, these were not recitings over
and over, the actual writing of the letters happened 40 to eighty years
after the Christos death.”
While the gospels were not penned until 40-80 years after
Jesus’ death, they were preached extensively before that. The book of Acts
records how the apostles went into numerous towns and the city of Jerusalem
to preach the gospel. Secular history also tells us about how this religion
spread very rapidly after the death of Jesus. The extensive preaching, and
teaching of new disciples, shows that the apostles could not have afforded
to carelessly forget Jesus’ deeds and sayings. So before the Gospels were
penned they existed as carefully preserved oral tradition that was passed on
during a very short amount of time.
“And if you would like to bring the
idea of Rabbis memorization into play then we must then ask, who among them
were called Rabbi.”
This is irrelevant, I’m just showing that it was Jewish culture
to memorize. These people relied on the Torah and written law but most
people couldn’t have a copy of it in their homes. Second, I also said that a
good student was expected to memorize their master’s teachings, this is true
of the disciples who were students of “The Good Rabbi.”
In conclusion I think I’ve shown that it was within the
original disciples’ ability to remember Jesus’ sayings and teachings
accurately 40-80 years after his death. Anyone challenging this will
eventually run into the Buddha problem. In my first post I mentioned that
Buddha’s words weren’t written down until 400 years after his death. Jesus
disciples beat that in 10% of the time. Yet we trust one and not the other.
Hmmm... one could say that the monks who followed Buddha were very devout
and discussed his sayings daily throughout their lives and imparted them
onto new disciples. Well, I think the original disciples could fit into that
definition as well. If you dismiss one source of history, such as the
Gospels, then most of ancient history now becomes unreliable and worthless.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
“What truly happened in the interim is
up for debate, but if you have hard evidence, by all means bring it to the
table.”
It has been brought.
“Always be ready to give a reason for the hope that is in
you, but with gentleness and reverence.” - 1 Peter 3:15
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